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Scythian1950 a posé la question dans Science & MathematicsMathematics · il y a 8 ans

Can you help this draftsman find the point on the circle?

See diagram:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh120/Scythian1...

A draftman has a circle of radius 2 drawn, centered on perpendicular axes as shown. One point is (0, 10/3), the other is (6,0). He wishes to find the point on the circle such that the line from one point is reflected from the circle at the unknown point towards the other point. Can he find this point by using a straightedge and compass?

Mise à jour:

Reflection, as if the circle is like a mirror.

Mise à jour 2:

Ah, Josh Swanson, I was hoping you'd find the method in the general case, but the question was, "can he find the point by straightedge and compass". The answer is "yes". I don't think there's a way in the general case.

I'll leave this open for those that'd like to try finding the method in the general case. Good luck. Let it be noted that Josh has found (6/5, 8/5) first.

Mise à jour 3:

Let'squestion, you'd think that the diagram given would be convincing that a real solution does exist. If anyone doubts, they can always measure the dimensions in the diagram.

Mise à jour 4:

This problem is related to "Allhazen's Billiard Problem" (10th century AD) which originates in Ptolemy's first formulation of it in 150 AD. Since it involves finding a cube root, there is no general straightedge

Mise à jour 5:

and compass solution. However, what if the draftsman uses the ruler to measure?

3 réponses

Pertinence
  • ?
    Lv 6
    il y a 8 ans
    Réponse favorite

    First, find the point. Take a point (a, b) on the circle with a, b > 0. To reflect, decompose the direction from (6, 0) to (a, b), namely (a-6, b), into components parallel and perpendicular to the tangent line, which have directions (a, b) and (b, -a), respectively. Flip the sign of the perpendicular component.

    Compute the projections:

    proj of (a-6, b) onto (a, b)

    = (a-6, b) dot (a, b)/|(a, b)|^2 (a, b)

    = [a^2-6a+b^2]/[a^2+b^2] (a, b)

    = [4-6a]/4 (a, b)

    = (1-3a/2) (a, b)

    proj of (a-6, b) onto (b, -a)

    = (a-6, b) dot (b, -a)/|(b, -a)|^2 (b, -a)

    = (ab-6b-ab)/4 (b, -a)

    = -3b/2 (b, -a)

    (I double checked; they add up to (a-6, b).) The direction after reflection is then

    (1-3a/2) (a, b) + 3b/2 (b, -a)

    = (a - 3a^2/2, b - 3ab/2) + (3b^2/2, -3ab/2)

    = (a + 3(b^2 - a^2)/2, b - 3ab)

    = (a + 3(2-a^2), b - 3ab)

    Next compute where the line traveling in this direction from (a, b) hits the y-axis. This line is

    L(t) = (a, b) + t(a + 3(2-a^2), b - 3ab)

    The x-component is zero when

    a + t(a + 3(2-a^2)) = 0

    => t = a/(3a^2 - a - 6)

    (If the denominator is zero, the line is vertical, unless a=0 it can't intersect the y-axis, so we can ignore this case.)

    In all, the intersection with the y-axis is at

    y = b + a(b-3ab)/(3a^2 - a - 6)

    Solving the system y = 10/3 and a^2 + b^2 = 4 subject to a, b >= 0 using Mathematica gives a single solution, (a, b) = (6/5, 8/5). So, indeed, the point, being rational, can be found using a straightedge and compass. It's not clear to me if the problem can be "solved", in some sense, using only a straightedge and compass, rather than algebra. Technically I should check to make sure this point is in the line of sight of both (6, 0) and (0, 10/3), though I won't take the time since I don't find that part interesting.

  • Kerry
    Lv 4
    il y a 5 ans

    Your question is great. Indeed we need a frame of reference for these. But to the question: shortest distance is the geometrical straight line distance(I guess). But if the space-time curvature is more curved, there is a possibilty that the geometrical distance there would be short than how we calculate the normal distance. For practical purposes, the normal geometrical distance might not help.

  • il y a 8 ans

    Tangent to the circle at (x' y') on the circle has the equation

    xx' yy' = 4 ------------------------------ (1)

    Equation to the normal at (x', y') is given by

    y = (y'/x')*x or x'y - y'x = 0 ----------------------------- given by (2)

    Calculate the slopes of the lines joining (0, 10/3) with (x', y') and (6, 0) with (x', y') and equate the slopes of the angle that these lines make with the normal. If there exists solutions to this then the draftsman can do it.

    slope of normal at (x', y') on circle = y'/x' = m1 ----------------- (1) say

    Slope, m2 of line joining (x', y') and (1, 10/3) is given by

    m2 = [{y'-(10/3)}/(x'-0)] = [(3y' - 10)/(3x')] = (y'/x') - {10/(3x')} --------------------------(2)

    tangent of angle formed between these two lines say θ is given by

    tan θ = [(m1-m2)/{1 (m1*m2)}] ------------------------------------ (3)

    From (1) and (2), m1 - m2 = {10/(3x')} ----------------------- (4) and

    {1 (m1*m2)} = 1 (y'/x')² -{(10y')/(3x'²)} = {(3x'² 3y'² -10y'}/(3x'²)} but we know

    x'² y'² = 4, so

    {1 (m1*m2)} = {(12-10y')/(3x'²)} -------------------------------(5)

    Substituting from (4) and (5) in (3) we get

    tan θ = [{10/(3x')}/{(12-10y')/(3x'²)}] = {(5x')/(6-5y')} --------------(5a)

    Similarly

    slope of normal at (x', y') on circle = y'/x' = m1 ----------------- (6) say

    Slope, M2 of line joining (x', y') and (6, 0) is given by

    M2 = [y' /(x'-6)] --------------------------(7)

    tangent of angle formed between these two lines say φ is given by

    tan φ = [(m1-M2)/{1 (m1*M2)}] ------------------------------------ (8)

    From (6) and (7), (m1 - M2) = (y'/x') - {y' /(x'-6)} or

    (m1 - M2) = [{y'(x'-6)-(y'x')}/{x'(x'-6)}] = [(-6y')/{x'(x'-6)}]----------------------- (9) and

    {1 (m1*M2)} = [1 {(y'²)/(x'² -6x')] or

    {1 (m1*M2)} = [(x'² y'²-6x') /(x'² - 6x')}] = [{(4-(6x')}/(x'² - 6x')}] --------------(10)

    Substituting from (9) and (10) in (8) we get

    tan φ = [(-6y')/{x'(x'-6)}]/[{(4-(6x')}/(x'² - 6x')}] = [(-3y')/{2-(3x')}] ------------------(11)

    as θ need to be equal to φ, from (5a) and (11) we get

    {(5x')/(6-5y')} = [(-3y')/{2-(3x')}] or

    10x'-15x'² = -18y' 15y'² or

    10x' 18y' = 15(x'² y'²) = 60 or

    5x' 9y' = 30 or 5x' = 30 -9y'--------------- (12)

    (5x')² (5y')² = 100; substituting from 12 we get

    (30-9y')² 25y'² = 100

    106y'² -540y' 800 = 0 or

    53y'² -270y' 400 = 0

    as determinant of this quadratic equation is < 0

    There is no real solution. Hence it is not possible for the draftsman to get the task done any way.

    I would request the questioner to please find flaw in my solution.

    I am working on a geometric method.

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