Le 4 mai 2021, la plateforme Yahoo Questions/Réponses fermera. Elle est désormais accessible en mode lecture seule. Aucune modification ne sera apportée aux autres sites ou services Yahoo, ni à votre compte Yahoo. Vous trouverez plus d’informations sur l'arrêt de Yahoo Questions/Réponses et sur le téléchargement de vos données sur cette page d'aide.
Is it possible to prove this equality without calculator?
Hello,
If you use a calculator to evaluate A:
A = ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6)
You get:
A = 14
Can someone prove this equality through calculus (i.e. not using a calculator)?
Thanks for your attention,
Regards,
Dragon.Jade :-)
@gôhpihán
= = = = = =
You method is sound but... The idea was at first to solve the equation (X³ - 75X - 1694 = 0)!
The answer I got was A=³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) which is indeed 14.
So your trial and error approach is NOT what I wanted. Please try again.
@gôhpihán
= = = = = =
Actually, I used cardano's Method:
Check it in:
@gôhpihán
= = = = = =
Well, I don't know whether Cardano's method simplifies things or not in your point of view. All I see is that it does give an answer that is actually not based on "Trial and Error approach".
A=³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) is indeed the correct answer to the equation; just as x=1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 is the correct solution to equation 5x-45=0.
It's just that it would be nice to use the simplest form A=14 to give the answer instead of the cubic roots (just like x=9 is better than x=1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1, even if both are correct).
Anyway, I asked that same question elsewhere, and had an answer that stated:
"To prove your equality, just calculate (7+2√6)³ and (7-2√6)³"
(7 ± 2√6)³ = 343 ± 294√6 + 504 ± 48√6 = 847 ± 342√6
So, obviously,
A=³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) = (7 - 2√6) + (7 - 2√6) = 14
That did however no explained how they got the 7±2√6 value in the first place...
Regards,
Dragon.Jade :-)
@Pauley Morph
= = = = = = = = =
The actual question was: I have got
A=³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6)
and I wish to have its simplest expression without resorting to use a calculator.
So actually, I DO NOT KNOW that this simplest expression is A=14... I just want a method that would allow me to find it without using a calculator!
Regards,
Dragon.Jade :-)
@gôhpihán
= = = = = =
Hello again. I understand your point of view about difficulty to solve.
However, allow me to pinpoint that Cardano's method yield the result and through a logical method (without resorting to a calculator or Trial and error) because:
A=³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) is INDEED the root of the cubic equation.
I guess my question was not clear enough. This very interesting conversation is a proof of it. You did not exactly provided me with the answer I expected but the question was poorly phrased in the first place so...
Regards,
Dragon.Jade :-)
3 réponses
- gôhpihánLv 7il y a 10 ansRéponse favorite
Recall that by Binomial Expansion
(a + b)^3 = a^3 + b^3 + 3a^2 b + 3ab^2
(a + b)^3 = a^3 + b^3 + 3ab(a + b)
A = ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6)
A³ = (847 - 342√6) + (847 + 342√6) + 3(847 - 342√6)^(2/3) * (847 + 342√6)^(1/3) + 3(847 - 342√6)^(1/3) * (847 + 342√6)^(2/3)
A³ = 1694 + 3(847 - 342√6)^(2/3) * (847 + 342√6)^(1/3) + 3(847 - 342√6)^(1/3) * (847 + 342√6)^(2/3)
A³ = 1694 + 3(847 - 342√6)^(1/3) * (847 + 342√6)^(1/3) [ ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) ]
A³ = 1694 + 3 * [ (847 - 342√6) (847 + 342√6) ]^(1/3) * [ ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) ]
A³ = 1694 + 3 * [ 847² - 342² * 6 ]^(1/3) * [ ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) ]
A³ = 1694 + 3 * [ 15625 ]^(1/3) * [ ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) ]
A³ = 1694 + 3 * [ 25^3 ]^(1/3) * [ ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) ]
A³ = 1694 + 3 * 25 * [ ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) ]
A³ = 1694 + 75* [ ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) ]
A³ = 1694 + 75* [ A ]
A³ - 75A - 1694 = 0
By Trial and Error A = 14 is a solution, factorizing it gives
(A - 14)(A² + 14A + 121) = 0
But the Quadratic Equation has a negative discrminant, so it has no real solution
Thus A = 14 only
Doneeeeee
=====
Ok tell me how to solve x^3 - 75x - 1694 = 0 other than Trial and Error? Cubic Formula? Rational Root Theorem? Bounded Theorem? Synthetic Division? Long Division? Bisection Method? Newton-Raphson Method? Trial and Error is still the simplest. Well obviously, you get x = ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) by Cubic Formula. Most of the time you just need to use trial and error for polynomial of degree higher than 2.
EDIT: I've haven't mastered Cardano's method, but after reading your solution in the other question, do you think you've simplified or shorten the problem? Even I don't like to use trial and error but sometimes we don't have an alternative way to approach it. Your Cardano's method creates more problems than it solves. Anyway, nice try. And calculus is not based on using calculator....
EDIT2:
A=³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) = (7 - 2√6) + (7 - 2√6) = 14
Let a + b√6 = (847 - 342√6)^(1/3)
==> (a + b√6)^3 = 847 - 342√6
==> (a^3 + 18ab^2) + √6 (3a^2 b + 6b^3) = 847 - 342√6
==> Compare coefficients of terms of √6 and non-√6
==> a^3 + 18ab^2 = 847, 3a^2 b + 6b^3 = -342
But then again, you can't exactly solve the two equations simultaneously without using Trial and Error (solution of a = 7, b = -2). Do the same method for (847 + 342√6). It's still trial and error.
So it still boils down to whether you want to solve
A³ - 75A - 1694 = 0
or
a^3 + 18ab^2 = 847, 3a^2 b + 6b^3 = -342
WITHOUT trial and error
Don't you think the first equation is easier to solve?
Not to mention, assume you want to solve a^3 + 18ab^2 = 847, 3a^2 b + 6b^3 = -342, first you need to make either a or b the subject (in which you can't), then you substitute into another, which turns out to be a more complicated polynomial than A³ - 75A - 1694 = 0
- ?Lv 7il y a 10 ans
A = ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6)
The cube roots must look like a ± b√6.
Since you know that the sum is equal to 14, then clearly a = 7.
(7 + b√6)^3
= 1(7)^3 + 3(7)^2 (b√6) + 3 (7)(b√6)^2 + 1(b√6)^3
= 343 + 147 b √6 + 126 b^2 + 6b^3 √6
= (343 + 126 b^2) + (147b +6b^3)√b
So (343 + 126 b^2) + (147b +6b^3)√b = 847 + 342√6
343 + 126 b^2 = 847
49 + 18 b^2 = 121
18 b^2 = 72
b^2 = 4
b = 2
147b +6b^3 = 342 is true when b = 2.
So ³√(847 - 342√6) + ³√(847 + 342√6) = (7 - 2√6) + (7 - 2√6) = 14