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Did a French Composer ever write a good symphony?
I'm prompted to ask this question for my wife and I were listening to the radio the other day when we heard a movement of D'Indy's 2nd symphony from a recently issued CD. 'Hmmph', she said when it was finished, 'that's the kind of stuff that gives classical music a bad name' I have to admit that it didn't grab me particularly, although I hated to tell her that I had recently downloaded said CD (legally and paid for). But it did set me wondering. There are few notable symphonies by French composers. I do like that by Dukas (of Sorcerer's Apprentice fame) and those by the virtually unknown 19th century French woman composer, Louise Farrenc (and most of her other music is worth a listen). I know there is a cycle of 4 by the (again, virtually unknown) Albert Magnard (who should be added to my list of composers affected by the two World Wars as he was shot in 1914 defending his estate - see previous question) and one by Chausson. The only other that I can think of is the late 18th-early 19th century Gossec. Beyond these few, and Milhaud, my mind goes blank. None of those mentioned so far are earth shattering and it is only Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique that has any real toehold in the repertoire. Is there something in the Gallic temperament that militated against symphonic thought? Is the symphony really only a creature of the German/Austrian, British and American minds?
(Suggested category - Society & Culture > Languages )
Opps, and Nordic, apologies to Sibelius, Nielsen, Alfven et al.
I wasn't aware that Dutilleux had written symphonies - I really know little about him. Roussel, I had remembered once I had left the keyboard (as so often happens). But how could I forget Gounod and the greatly underrated Saint-Saens. And of course the Bizet. I remember the issue of what must have been one of the first recordings, that by Beecham. It was, I recollect praised to the skies, unlike the coupling, a symphony by Lalo. That was generally panned. I have never since been tempted to seek the work out. Has anyone heard it? Was the criticism justified? That music of his I have heard, in addition to the well known Symphonie Espagnol, I have rather liked, especially the ballet Naumouna. And, since asking this question, I have been relistening to Magnard - both the 1st and 3rd symphonies. Much better than I had remembered, works that fall into the category of those that are unjustly neglected.
Alberich - no I don't mean D'Indy's Symphony on a French Mountain Air, but his Symphony No 2 in B flat major, Op 57. I know the former work quite well.
10 réponses
- il y a 1 décennieRéponse favorite
It seems you have discounted Albéric Magnard as a symphony writer. I must say I really like his Symphony No 3 in B flat minor. A little Germanic it might be, but I think it's a fine symphony, nonetheless. I have also always had a soft spot for the Chausson symphony, although I have to admit it's not one of the greatest works in the form ever written.
Nemesis has stolen my thunder slightly by mentioning Dutilleux's two excellent symphonies (he is a vastly underplayed composer in my opinion), as well as Roussel, whose 3rd and 4th symphonies are particularly good.
I am a great fan of Jacques Ibert, whose 'Symphonie Marine' I really enjoy, as well as those rarely-played symphonies of Saint-Saëns. Everyone knows No 3, of course, but No 2 (A minor) is wonderful. Gounod wrote two very Beethovenian symphonies which are emminently listenable (the first particularly sounds a lot like Beethoven). I would also make the case for Florent Schmitt's (another unjustly neglected composer!) fine Symphony No 2, written in the last months of his life in1958 as an old man of 87. Finally, I would draw attention to the symphonies of Charles Tournemire, whose eight symphonies are well worth a listen.
And one must not forget that wonderful, glittering symphony by the 17-year-old Bizet. It's one of my favourite works and is always a complete joy to listen to.
Edit:
I'm afraid the Lalo deserves its 'panning'. A very poor work from a composer not at his best in large-scale symphonic forms.
- NemesisLv 7il y a 1 décennie
Though a Wallon by birth, César Franck was entirely French trained beyond the age of 13 and spent his entire working life from then on within French culture, so a case for his Symphony being 'French' should be made?
Albert Roussel (1869-1937) -- 4 Symphonies of which II (op.23 1919/20) III (op.42 1922) and IV (op.53 1930) are particularly powerful.
Henri Dutilleux (b1916) -- 2 symphonies (1951 & 1959), both powerfully and meticulously crafted works.
And just for the heck of it, the big one that really did get away: Alkan's lost *orchestral* symphony, performance of which got as far as being regularly speculated about in the press of his day as 'impending' or 'imminent', but hide nor hair has ever been found of since... :-)
- AlberichLv 7il y a 1 décennie
You mentioned d'Indy's "Symphony #-2". According to my research, that's not his "Symphony on a French Mountain Air"(or was it the one you referenced?); here's a short segment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftqxKlxcVqU
Though not a symphony in the general sense of the word - more likened unto a piano concerto with orchestra - it's certainly a worthwhile composition in my opinion.
And even if Franck's "Symphony in D-minor" isn't comparable to say any of those of Brahms or Mahler and a symphonic anomaly, still of interest for its three movement composition, if nothing else: and the second movement does contain a most beautiful melody.
All in all, one will have to admit, that the French for whatever cultural reason for it that there may be, seem not to have taken to the symphony as their favorite form of musical expression.
By the way, don't you think you should have included the Russians as well as the Nordic in your apology: a no inconsequential matter - one P.I. Tchaikovsky, and Shostakovitch, etc.? ((or did I misinterpret it, your apology?))
Alberich
- Anonymeil y a 1 décennie
If you would consider,Alkan's Symphony for Solo Piano is an excellent work of a genius and he is French.
I'm not much of an orchestral fan(I listen mainly to solo piano or piano concerto works)but Alkan's Symphony really is a good work to listen to.Orchestral or not.
- petr bLv 7il y a 1 décennie
Debussy: La Mer
This is a symphony, but the title makes for a lack of awareness that it is, as per definition, a symphony.
best regards, petr b.
- Malcolm DLv 7il y a 1 décennie
Saint Saens 3rd Symphony ("Organ") is a treasure. It is pretty popular too!
- Anonymeil y a 5 ans
Thank you for your question. When I listen to music, I listen to its musical content .I don't so much hear its musical ethnicity. ( although some composers do write very patriotic songs with their own musical style and signature. Smetana and Chopin i.e ( correct me if I am Wrong!, Albeniz, Rachmaninoff and Piazolla are such composers. When I listen to Russian music it feels Russian.I am able to distinguish it- most of the time. The same goes for traditional Chinese and Japanese Music, I guess a lot of it has to do with its Modal scale,and instrumentation and language and how to fit its syllable into their songs. As for French and German, Sometimes I feel it, sometimes I don't feel the country of origin. But Every composer has its own style, So when I hear Chopin or Strauss I can tell. But when I hear Dvorak's Largo( From the New World Symphony), I can feel the composers inspiration which came from the Spiritual Songs. From his Largo though, I could not tell that he came from Prague and moved to America. Sometimes I think it depends on the composer's intention to reveal the musical identity and the way he is influenced by his musical surroundings. When I hear the Austrian National anthem as composed by Haydn, I could not tell that it was Austrian music. But when I heard the Romanian National anthem I guess that it came from Russia. That reminds me, Some of Mozart's works do have the influence of Italian Opera and the Mannheim Symphonic Orchestra. And a lot of great composers were influenced by Bach and have that Bachian style, counterpoint and imitation, Mozart, Brahms , Haydn and Mendelssohn are some examples. Another composer, Scarlatti do have some Spanish influence in his keyboard work. Scarlatti was born in Portugal but moved to Spain. When I hear Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody, I don't know what is so ' Hungarian ' about it. Although some composers like Bizet, wrote Carmen with an entirely Spanish feel, even though Bizet has never been to Spain.
